RESPECT. The Archive: Macklemore & Ryan Lewis Interviewed in RESPECT. Vol. 4 Issue 4

The MC/producer combo is booked solid for the rest of 2012. It was their energetic show that first cultivated their ever-growing loyal fan base. They also make amazing videos, and it’s their attention to detail that makes them stand out in the rap landscape.

Accept them or reject them. Hip-hop is richer for having these fellas carve a new path. Get in line and get your mind right. Soon you’ll understand.

RESPECT.: I remember when we spoke on the radio for the #KeepItThoro show, when The Heist first came out. You told me you thought you’d do maybe 30,000. You did double that, and more. And now obviously you have multi-platinum singles. Talk to me about the adjustment to the fame, and the success.

Macklemore: The biggest adjustment has been my personal life. Being out in public. It’s the simple things that you hear about all the time, like, “You can’t eat a meal,” or “You can’t go shopping,” or you can’t do certain things that you used to do without taking pictures. You hear it in the interviews—about how you can’t have a personal life, and you can’t do what you used to do and you’re like, “Yeah, whatever, bitch, you’re rich!” You know? But when you actu- ally can’t go out with your girl? Or you can’t go on the street with your family without it turning into something? You can’t go to a hip-hop show without it turning into a photo shoot for everyone? It’s different. And outside of that… The minute “Thrift Shop” started to really pop off, the media was like, What is this? Is this hip-hop? Where do they come from? Really scrutinizing it. They were trying to get adjusted [to us being] the dudes with the No. 1 song in the country. When you have that No. 1 spot, people are going to try to critique you, and they’re going to try to break you down. That was an adjustment, too. But it got me to toughen up my skin a little.

Is it criticism of, like, where does Macklemore and Ryan Lewis fit into the hip-hop landscape?

So much of that pressure I had was this whole This is a one-hit wonder. Fear that that was what “Thrift Shop” is and not wanting it to be that. That scared me for a second, but then I was like, Oh, OK, we hit platinum. That’s crazy. A couple months later I was like, Now we hit five times platinum. This is No. 1. This is crossing to a whole other area that most of hip-hop music doesn’t even get to. That was scary. I come from that underground hip-hop shit. I grew up listening to Wu-Tang Clan and Rawkus Records. Thats what I identified as. It was a trip to cross over into this pop world, not even trying to. In terms of hip-hop, I don’t know where we stand. If you listen to The Heist front to back it’s apparent that we cover a wide variety of sounds, textures, concepts, styles of rap. Whatever it is, it is hip-hop, first and foremost. That is what we make. I just got off the phone with Cee Lo. He was like, “I knew you were this fresh. I saw the depth of what you’re doing.” To hear that from somebody like Cee Lo is amazing. And it’s a testament to the fact that still, a lot of people aren’t familiar with the whole album beyond just “Thrift Shop.” It’s going to be a process. It’s going to be doing collaborations. It’s going to be doing some freestyles. It’s going to be continuing to be ourselves, and I think people will finally realize what it is.

“Thrift Shop” and “Can’t Hold Us” represent a certain side of you, but it doesn’t fully define you or The Heist.

That’s beautifully put. Those who want to discover what else it is, they’re going to have to do a little bit of digging because the rest of The Heist isn’t on commercial radio.

Do you still have the desire to make records with other artists?

I want to make music with the people I respect. And I think that the power of the cosign, as you’ve seen in the last three, four, five years, has diminished. The cosign is important for people to be like, OK, now this dude is legitimate, he has validity. And particularly being a white dude, two white dudes from Seattle, Washington. I think that’s why a lot of people think, Yo, you need a cosign. Otherwise people aren’t people aren’t going to fuck with you. They’re not going to believe you, or they are not going to give you a chance. But to me, the skills speak for themselves, and it might not be off of “Thrift Shop”; it might be a record or two down the road. If i do a record with somebody, it’s off the strength of the fact that I respect him as an artist, and I think we can make a good song, and that’s it.

People also hop on bandwagons, and now that you’re successful, and I’m sure you get approached by everybody. How do you judge? It must be annoying at times that you get this attention now from everybody.

It is more… It’s humorous to me. [Laughs].

If you can laugh at it, Mack, then it’s good, man.

I can laugh at it. I realize what it is.

Yeah. You’re the hot guy.

I’m the hot guy at the moment, and people want to make music with the hot guy. I know the difference between that and when Cee Lo hits me up and talks to me for 15 minutes and goes in depth about my lyrics. I know he’s a fan. I know when Kweli hits me up and we talk and he goes in about the album that he’s actually a fan of the movement and what we’re making. Those are inevitably the people that you want around. These are the people who are going to be there when you’re not the hot flavor of the month and their friendship and their place in the industry hasn’t wavered.

What’s the next single?

I don’t know what we’re going to put out. They are going to work “Same Love,” which is already down for a long time but actually is getting a lot of spins at alternative radio and starting to show up on the Hot 100. So we are doing “Same Love.” We have the record with ScHoolboy Q, “White Walls.” We have the video for that, though I don’t really see potential for urban radio fuckin’ with it, but… Honestly, it would be incredible if [the songs] were on the radio. In terms of the cultural shit that’s taking place, I believe, as a writer, as someone who wants to make art that has impact on [other] peoples’ art, I believe in the power of song. But out-side of that, I’m not sure of radio. We had a great run at it.

You hired a division of Warner Brothers to work your singles to radio and it’s worked well. Does that mean you could foresee eventually signing with them?

No, not at all. No offense to Warner, and no offense to any major label, but at this point it would be really foolish to sign with anybody. We are definitely not planning at all to sign to a major. It wouldn’t make any sense. I’m not trying to blow it out of proportion but, in a way, I think that it’s revolutionary in terms of the industry.

That’s a good point.

You keep creative control. And you hire out a label, as a service. And you maintain all your masters, and all your rights to the music and the publishing and the art piece. It’s your ball. You have the ball but you don’t have what they still have, which is radio. And that, to my knowledge, has not been done. I have not seen another artist do that. Hopefully it is a blueprint. Hopefully people will realize, we had a lot of leverage, and that’s where artists get fucked. Rappers are broke, and they want to get signed… They promise you all this shit, when really it’s a fuckin’ bank loan, it’s money you have to pay back. It’s a shitty bank loan with horrible interest…

It doesn’t make sense to you to give up control of what you have.

We still do everything ourselves. We did a video shoot last night in the studio and I’m still moving lights and cleaning up equipment. It doesn’t change. My fiancée is our tour manager and she works nonstop, and Ryan’s got his girl on the road… It’s very much a family affair. I don’t think we even know how to go in and hire other people and start to outsource things. Not in our nature. But we’re trying to figure it out. It’s a business and we don’t have anybody telling us what to do or how to do it and it’s trial and error. It’s an exciting time, but it also comes with responsibility and an absurd amount of stress. But we do take on all aspects of the craft.

What do you think it is about The Heist that has connected to people? You have those Day-One fans who roll with you, but why have you been able to connect with a new audience?

The sound is different. The concepts are different. The beats are different. Everything about The Heist is unconventional. The Heist doesn’t really sound like anything out there. For a lot of people, that is refreshing. It’s exciting for people to hear artists be themselves, be vulnerable, to talk about issues that might be taboo, or that other people might be afraid to speak on. It resonates with people on a personal level. And you also have the radio songs. That is a cohesive album. That has depth. That people can really digest over time.

As far as The Heist, did you feel, like, This is in me and I need to express it?

I’ve always been that kind of a writer. I have always been somebody who writes from a conceptual place, from a personal place. I was cleaning out the studio last night and we found boxes of raps, really old raps.

Oh, shit! You found the rap book, Mack?

I’ve always been that dude on this self-searching mission in the system trying to connect to something bigger than myself. It does take a long time to write those records sometimes, because you need to have internal work, and time to figure out what makes you a human and how you fit into this piece of existence. It takes a sacrifice. I don’t live a normal life. My life is a hundred percent from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to bed. It revolves around music and I think that the people who are successful at the craft don’t leave the studio. They don’t. They do shows, but everything revolves around music. It has to be that way.

And you’ve overcome substance abuse. Do you feel like that is what’s keeping you on the straight and narrow? Your craft?

I wish success would keep me sober. I wish the dedication to the art would keep me sober. But it won’t. That is not what it is. I mean, even just rolling out today when I feel like I have not had a break in months, I have thoughts of getting fucked-up and relapsing. The success, once you get used to it, once you realize that, OK, this is crazy. I’m on TV now and I have got songs on the radio. When that wears off, you’re still left with yourself. And if you’re not working on yourself, and if you don’t kind of put in that kind of energy to make sure that spiritually you are fit and mentally, you are stable, then eventually it all falls off. The only thing that’s going to save me is putting in work and being connected to God.

Plus, yours is a close-knit community, everyone relies on each other.

Absolutely. We’re all going through it right now. You’re kind of preaching to the choir when you’re like, “Oh, man, I feel like I need a break for two months.” Everybody’s like, “Muthafucka, I haven’t had a break in two months! Quit bitching.” It can almost be a detriment. Everyone is so overworked and sacrifices so much. But Ryan is like a brother to me. I can vent to him, and he can vent to me. We have a camp of people who are supportive. It’s a family.

Let’s talk about your partnership. Ryan seems adamant about maintaining the core of what you guys build, no matter what. Like, not letting any outside force affect that. Is that accurate?

Ryan is a perfectionist. He has a vision. He’s a visual person. He’s somebody who wants everybody and everything to be on point and right, and the way he knows how to do that is to do it himself. There’s that creative integrity In terms of the integrity of remaining true to our core values, where we come from and the fan base I think, that falls a little bit more onto my side and onto my girl’s side for sure. I’ve been doing this for a long time and I realize how important subject matter is and how important those core fans are. You’re going to go up and down in this career, but if you can maintain that core fan base you’re going to be straight. I put a lot of value in that. With both of us together it’s great, and Ryan is somebody who executes and makes a vision into a reality.

Do you have any early ideas of the direction you might go with the next project?

I’m starting to just write—to brainstorm subject matter. I don’t ever want to feel the pressure to make another “Thrift Shop.” That’s when people fail. If we happen to make one of those, which I think we’re capable of, so be it. That would be awesome, but I don’t want to put pressure on myself in that way.

Who do you like out there?

The newest person that I am probably fuckin’ with is Chance The Rapper. He’s really dope. He reminds me of some real West Coast styling, a crazy voice, and his content is dope. We’re going to do a European tour with Chance. And I’m a big fan of K.Dot; Kendrick is King Kendrick. He’s the best at this point. The records that I’ve heard from Schoolboy Q’s album are crazy. Ab-Soul’s shit is crazy. Those are the people who jump out and stick out. These are the people I’m looking forward to doing more with and to seeing what else they come up with.

I am looking forward to The Heist follow-up.

Me too [laughs]. I’m looking forward to getting off the fuckin’ road and in the lab.

And continuously and always repping for Seattle.

That’s one of the dopest parts about it. Anybody feels this way, particularly if you come from an area not known for hip-hop music, obviously like Seattle, Washington. I was thinking how very proud I am, and what this meant for the city, and hopefully the door that it’s opened for other artists coming out of Seattle. You don’t have to move to L.A. You don’t have to move to Atlanta or to New York to make it. The attention that this has brought to the region is a beautiful thing. It’s something I wanted my entire life. I want my city to be in light.